Choose Love, Read Romance

Love is in the air and on the shelves! In this Valentine’s Day episode, Kacie chats with booksellers from two of Connecticut’s romance-only bookstores to rave about all things romance novels. From breaking down stereotypes to sharing can’t-miss love stories, we’re making the case that romance is for everyone.

Big thanks to Sarah and Elizabeth from Montgomery & Taggert and Jenna from Blush Book Lounge for chatting with us this month!  

For more romance novel suggestions, stop in and browse the February book display on the first floor of Miller Library. <3

Transcript

 Kacie Mexiell: Hello everyone and welcome to the Hamden Library Podcast. I'm Kacie, and for February--the month of Valentine's Day--we're talking romance novels. Today we're joined by three wonderful book sellers to chat about a genre that's wildly popular, often misunderstood and sometimes unfairly dismissed. So whether you love romance, avoid it, or have no idea where to start, this episode is all about getting curious: what romance is, why people love it, and why it might be worth a second look. 
 
 

All right, so go ahead. You guys can introduce yourselves.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: My name is Jenna Zakhour and I own Blush Beauty Lounge, which is a hair salon, and our sister store is Blush Book Lounge. We actually just opened in October. 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I'm Elizabeth Tucker. I'm the co-owner of Montgomery and Taggert. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Good morning. I'm Sarah Borgnis-Tobin. I'm the other half of Montgomery and Taggert, and we're located in Chester, Connecticut. We opened in September 2020 for our grand opening in September.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Awesome. So, can you guys tell me where your love of romance novels started? 
 
 

I mean, I'm just assuming you must love it since you own romance focused bookstores.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I would say for me it started when I was very young, probably younger than I should have been. I remember being in middle school, like sixth grade, and picking up some... I remember it was Sarah Dessen I was reading at the time, which was a huge throwback, but I just loved a happy ending story. It was before I grew into that "maybe I wanna read something with a little more thrill or spice", so it was that pure romance that I always loved and that translated into my adult years. You know, more into high school, college, and now I guess my book genres that I like have changed a little bit within romance, but I always find myself back in that realm. 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I first read romance--it was loaned to me by a friend of mine, actually. It was Joanna Lindsay's The Present, which is a novella in the Mallory series, and I knew. There had always been romance novels in my home, 'cause my mom, that's all she read. And I knew that my mom actually had this book and I did not know how she was going to feel about me reading it. 
 
 

So I smuggled it into the house and read it and then it unlocked my brain to a whole new dimension. And then I was trying to smuggle it back out of the house and she saw it and went, "Ah. Okay, but that’s like, book six. And if we're gonna do this, you have to start at book one. It's upstairs. Go get it." 
 
 

 And that was the end of that, and I've been trying to get my friends to read romance for my entire life. and I'm just so thrilled to be able to talk about it all the time now. Truly goals.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Goodness. Yes. So, I have a little bit of an unconventional answer to this question. 
 
 

I am newer to the world of romance than you might think. I did not grow up reading romance specifically. I came into this world through introduction of my friend, my business partner, Elizabeth, and prior to that I was working at a public library actually doing outreach and events for adults, and so one of the things that really resonated for me was, I mean there was never any doubt in my mind about the joy that romance brings to people as a genre, and the authenticity and connection that exists within that community was immediately apparent to me. It was not a difficult choice for me to jump in with both feet to be a member of this community, and I have no regrets right now. I feel passionately about Kressley Cole, as someone who has been really setting the bar for a lot of romantasy that we have coming out today. 
 
 

So, I am excited to continue to meet more readers and authors and grow my knowledge of the genre, but in the meantime, I am here and I'm absolutely thrilled and I just feel so enthusiastic about it.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Awesome. So, this is interesting, since you said you came to romance later. I wonder if you have any advice for romance skeptics or maybe people who don't really understand the genre about why it's maybe worthwhile to give it a try?  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: And, you know, sometimes I feel like a little bit of an ambassador for people who are like, "I don't really know romance". I'm like, "girl, it's okay. Come in. We're here." 
 
 

I feel like there's a gateway romance for everyone. Literally everybody. There's a book in our store that if you've never read romance before, you're going to find something in common with the books that you know and love. And if you're not a reader, then with the stories that you know and love and the characters that you see in movies. You're going to find some kind of connection because romance is a vast genre. It's diverse, it's inclusive, it's representative. So, when you come into our store, you're going to find a little piece of yourself in a book somewhere, and we're so excited to help you find it when you come to visit.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: What do you guys think people often misunderstand about romance novels?  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I've had this conversation a lot lately, so I'm gonna jump in here. 
 
 

A romance must, must, must, by definition, have a happily ever after. It's not a debate. It's not a controversy. I will die on this hill and I will set it on fire with my dying breath. Romance must have a happily ever after. Nicholas Sparks does not write romance. Colleen Hoover, for the most part, does not write romance. 
 
 

They are romantic. They are love stories. They are not a part of the romance genre, and I think that that just needs to be settled right out in the open. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I don't know. I never thought about it that way. Honestly, for me, I always thought that... 
 
 

So, the way that we kind of order and have the books in our store is as long as there's a romance or romantic element to the book, we will have it just because there's so many books you can choose from. 
 
 

But we try to have options for everybody, you know? Anyone who walks into the store, people who are trying to dip their toes into romance, and also to give us more of a selection. So that's why I guess I wasn't as strict with what we were having.  
 
 

When I'm ordering, I'm like, you know what? 
 
 

There's a mention of love in here. Let's get that into the store. I don't know, I feel like it's been working for us only because it gives our book selection... It makes it even more endless even though there's romance in everything anyway. That's another thing like you guys were mentioning with movies, with TV shows now, there's always an element of romance in it. 
 
 

And at least to me personally, that's what draws me in. And I don't know if people even realize that that's what draws them in as well. So that's how we go about it.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Should we talk about the loon in the room?  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Go for it. Let's go. Let's get right into it.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Well, bringing up movies and tv, I think we have so many new potential romance readers with this Heated Rivalry mania fan base, which I'm a hundred percent a part of: people who have never read a romance novel before, alongside people who have been reading them their whole lives, [and] people who have been Game Changers fans since day one, who have been championing Rachel Reed and gay and Queer Romance since day one. 
 
 

So, we are all finding ourselves in the same room, and I just hope we can have the most fun. It's such a joyful thing and watching it unfold over the past few weeks with the new HBO Heated Rivalry TV show has been so exciting. So, I think we do have all of us an opportunity to welcome these people to the genre with grace and let them know what we think and help them find what's next. They've got this Game Changers, Heated Rivalry hangover, and so we can put a book in their hands and say, "I think you're gonna really like this. I'm really excited to hear what you think about this, what you liked, what you didn't like, and then we'll take it from there". 
 
 

Just linking back to what is perhaps a misconception: we do sometimes have folks come into our store and they're a little less familiar with the fact that we're a romance bookstore and they're noticing a theme. They're walking around, they're like, "something's different about this bookstore". 
 
 

They sometimes wonder, is this a bookstore for books that are only written by women? And I'm like, "well, you're on a path, but in fact we do have many books written by men". It just so happens that most of those men are queer or gay. We have non-binary authors and we would love to have more romance books written by men, perhaps, for readers to enjoy.  
 
 

I would ask men why they're not writing romance. Why don't men write more stories about love with happy endings? That's what I'm curious about.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah. I wonder if this could lead to more conversations about the ways in which the genre has been embracing a wider and more diverse audience, and also a more diverse authorship. And I do wonder: this genre clearly has such a large and devoted audience, but it's so often dismissed, especially in media and in Hollywood, in the industry. And so I wonder: what do you guys think? 
 
 

Do you think this is a shift, a wind of change, that the buying power is coming more to the surface? I'm thinking about all the articles written recently where it's that people are shocked that the show is incredible and amazing. As someone who reads in the genre and is part of this whole community, it's not surprising. 
 
 

We love this. We're here for it, you know? So, I wonder what you guys think about if it's gonna change anything or I don't know.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I certainly hope so. We've got this sort of 1, 2, 3 punch of Heated Rivalry, People We Meet On Vacation, and then Bridgerton is coming later this month, and I think that if we can continue to build this sort of momentum of folks who are already familiar with that material--sort of, as Sarah indicated, welcoming in the folks who are new to it have watched the show or the movie and say... 
 
 

Oh, I actually had someone in the shop yesterday who was shocked that Bridgerton was a book, and the person who they were with suggested that perhaps they had turned it into a book after the show came out. Now I had to really clamp down on some feelings and some words there, but it was a really interesting conversation. 
 
 

And if that is the conversation, that's great because suddenly we've got all of these new people who are like, even if they don't wanna read Bridgerton because they've watched the show and they know what it's about, historical romance can use all of the eyeballs it can get right now. 
 
 

We'd love to see what that could do for folks like Sarah MacLean, for Krystal Marquis, for Vanessa Riley, all of those folks. I hope that if we can keep this momentum going, it can bring a lot more attention to an already very popular genre.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I think also just the influence of Booktokers, Booktubers, stuff like that. 
 
 

The whole thing with Heated Rivalry... my personal feelings is I love that it's getting the attention it's getting, and also because it is a queer romance, and I love seeing the positive feedback from literally everyone all over the world. 
 
 

I see it in both the bookstore and in my hair salon. We have so many people that come in all the time. Seeing that everyone is enjoying that is very refreshing because--just the way our world can be sometimes--it's tough to indicate things like that, so that's one thing I want to say. I love that a queer romance is getting as much love as Heated Rivalry is getting. 
 
 

But also, like we were saying before with what people are buying one day in the bookstore is indicated a lot from what Booktokers are posting about. I think with this generation that we have of all these influencers, the more that they are speaking about different novels and speaking about different authors, those popular books can become shows, can become movies, and sometimes people go at it backwards. Like, they'll like the TV show, or they'll like the movie, so then they wanna read the book. But I think now that there's so many book to movie or TV adaptions that people wanna get ahead of the game and read the books first. 
 
 

I see that happening a lot with [authors] like Ali Hazelwood. She has The Love Hypothesis coming out [at] the end of this year. A lot of people have been buying that book now because people are trying to read that first. I actually like that because when I was younger, when I was around my friends, they would just watch the movie or just watch the TV show. They wouldn't even think to start the book, so I like how that's kind of shifting in a way.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: So, if someone is brand new, they watched Heated Rivalry or they're into Bridgerton and they're like, "oh, these are books". What do you think is the gateway novel? Or, for non-romance readers, where would you suggest they start? 
 
 

Particularly if they're a library patron and coming into a library where romance is often intermixed with lots of other fiction, and it's not necessarily its own thing.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I actually thought that Sarah MacLean's These Summer Storms was an absolutely perfect book to answer this question. It's one of my favorite reads of 2025. 
 
 

I was really nervous about it because Sarah is the queen of romance at this point, and when she said she was writing her first full length contemporary, I almost passed out with joy. Then she said that it was gonna be more of a family drama, and I was like, "Sarah, why are you abandoning us? What is going on?" 
 
 

But the family drama has enough romance in it that as a romance reader, it was totally fulfilling. I was like, "Yes, this is a romance, but it is primarily a family drama". So, I think that that is a really good gateway for people who usually read women's fiction, for people who even just read straight literary fiction. 
 
 

It's so beautifully written. It's so delightful and joyful to consume that. I think that it's good because there's the space in there between the family drama--stop saying genre--family drama and the romance that you can decide. Like, if the romance was not the priority for you, then the family drama is a fulfilling story in and of itself. 
 
 

If the romance intrigued you a little bit, welcome. We've got more for you for sure.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: I also think it's very tempting to say this is The Book, and there are books like that. You know, there are a lot of great introductory books. There are classics. You could start at the beginning, but I also would really just encourage people to go to their library and to go to their bookstore and have a conversation. Take the time for yourself to have a conversation with your librarian, with your library worker, with your book seller, and say, "here's a couple things I'm really into. What do you recommend?" 
 
 

Because it's such an important element to have the right context and to meet the expectations of the reader, to have the best experience. And it's also okay to read a book you don't like. It's all right to try it on and be like, "you know what, that wasn't for me. Get lost. Let's try something else." 
 
 

 But what an exciting thing that there are people here to help you on that journey to help guide you and find the book that they think you're gonna wanna talk about and share with your friends. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: For me, there is a book that I always think of when we have people who are newer to the genre. Like you guys were saying, of course, it really depends on that individual's interests: what they like, what they don't like. For me, there is a book I read called Heart the Lover by Lily King. It's a litfic. 
 
 

It was one of those books where of course there's the romance element in it, but it also has a lot to do with family and grief and self-growth. Just the way that it was written, I feel like a lot of people could relate to. And I find that a lot of people love reading what they could relate to. 
 
 

So that was one for me that honestly, like that book was like, I was in tears. I'm a book crier, but [with] that book I was bawling. A lot of people say the same, and after we recommend it and they read it.  
 
 

They like that aspect of [how] sometimes it isn't always a happy ending. Sometimes it is, but not the way you would've thought. Sometimes life can hit you with the deaths and grief of family and friends and just that alone I feel like was very popular.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: So, I wonder if this is a good time to dive into romance sub genres. Because just like there's a book for every reader, there's also a romance for every vibe, feeling, mood, person interest. 
 
 

And so, I'm wondering, like Heated Rivalry's obviously a sports romance, it's a queer romance. We have historical romance. We have romantasy, which is wildly popular right now. I'm wondering are there any sub-genres that don't necessarily feel like a romance for first time readers, or maybe a trope or sub-genre that has more mass appeal? 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: So, in our bookstore we have three different rooms and each room is a subgenre. Our first room is the cowboy romance room. The middle room is more contemporary. The last room, which I find is the fan favorite, is romantasy. We have thrillers, dark romance in there, and then local authors as well. 
 
 

I always find that people are gravitating towards the romantasy, thriller, dark romance section, especially since, you know, pop culture. Those do tend to turn into movies that people widely enjoy. I always find that romantasy is always booming, especially with ACOTAR and Throne of Glass and Quicksilver, Brimstone and all of those books. 
 
 

I find that people like books--myself included--where there are elements where you can relate to. Sometimes it's a human in a fantasy world, but then there's also elements that go beyond what we can imagine. So, I think people also enjoy the mix of the two.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah, absolutely. Romantasy is by far our best-selling subgenre, followed closely by Dark Romance, which leans contemporary. It can also be in historical, but it does tend to lean contemporary and there are similarities there. There's a level of conflict that the reader expects that is common among both of those sub genres as opposed to a contemporary romcom where there's probably very little conflict and very low stakes. 
 
 

I think readers right now are looking for something challenging and difficult and potentially apocalyptic where the main characters, again, get their happily ever after, because certainly that's something we're all facing down in real life. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah, I love a good escapist read... No reality. No, no, no, no, no. 
 
 

Do you guys think that romantasy is different than a fantasy book with a romantic subplot? And do you think the readership is different?  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: In a technical sense definition? Sure. You could, in terms of readership and what's on our shelves in the library and at the bookstore... I don't know that it is so different, but yeah. One certainly [will] more prominently feature the relationship, focus [on] the romance as the driving, most prominent part of the plot. Whereas in something that's more fantasy based, you're gonna have so much world building and it's gonna be a... and also there's this guy over here and they're both great. 
 
 

Read what you love and it takes you. 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Again, a book for every mood. What are you in the mood to... do you want to totally escape into a foreign world, or do you just want a little bit of magic and some fun times over there? Yeah.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Okay. Let's do a lightning round. 
 
 

What romance subgenre and/or book would you recommend to someone who normally reads... and I'll go through a couple different genres. So, for someone who normally reads mystery or thriller, what would you recommend?  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I tend to lean Nora Roberts here. Sandra Brown. Depending on the person's spice and gore tolerance, we can also talk about Brynne Weaver. We can talk about Navessa Allen.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yeah, I was gonna say Lights Out.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Lights Out.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah. Sherry Thomas has a wonderful Lady Sherlock series, if you like historical, and then I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know for sure that there are cozy mystery romantasies too. 
 
 

Again, it just depends. That's the first question I ask when somebody comes in and says, "What do you recommend?" 
 
 

I say, "Well, you gotta give me more than that. Do you want a historical? Do you want romantasy? Do you want a contemporary?" 
 
 

And then let's go from there. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: I was thinking Sherry Thomas. Catherine Cowles also.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yes.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Okay. How about fantasy or science fiction? It's your time to shine. Science fiction. Go. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Everybody, go buy a Kimberly Lemming book and then the covers are on your shelf in a frame because it's so beautiful. Books are beautiful inside and out, and they're so much fun. 
 
 

They're funny and they're sexy and they're just fun.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I would also recommend Rachel Gillig for fantasy readers.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yeah.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: She is like a perfect bridge between that fantasy with a romantic element and romantasy. Obviously, The Knight and the Moth was one of the best books of last year. I just this week, finally read One Dark Window and Two Twisted Crowns, and it's my whole personality now, so, yeah. She's a great choice. 
 
 

I  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: feel like I always stick to the OG, Sarah J. Maas. I just love the whole ACOTAR. I feel like if someone's getting into fantasy, I always put them onto ACOTAR or Throne of Glass.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: We call Sarah a gateway author for people who come into the library and maybe haven't picked up a book in a while. 
 
 

They'll read something like that, or Fourth Wing, or even like Addie LaRue, and suddenly they can't say anything.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yeah, Fourth Wing is a big one too.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Sarah Fierce has also been really popular with a lot of folks that are new [to] romance. Her books are not spicy, so if you're feeling a little shy, then they're a good option to break into the romance genre with some incredible cozy fantasy. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Okay. What about literary fiction?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I love Lily King. I love Heart the Lover. I guess The Correspondent can be a lit fic. I'm reading that right now. I've been enjoying that and I like how the book is, like, emails and texts, which I think is different and cool, but yeah. Heart The Lover is my big one. 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah. I'm gonna go back to These Summer Storms. Probably Emily Henry and Ali Hazelwood too. Anything by either of them. Again, Nora Roberts. I think those are some solid choices. Kennedy Ryan, absolutely.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Taylor Jenkins Reid is a gateway for folks that are really into literary fiction. Her most recent novel, Atmosphere.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Oh, that was amazing. 
 
 

And I love that Taylor Jenkins Reid does so much research for all of her books. I feel like when I read her books, I learned so much, like [with] Atmosphere, I was like, "oh my gosh, who knew I knew about astronauts and NASA?" 
 
 

Even with Daisy Jones and the Six, I learned so much about recording music and what certain terms were. 
 
 

And I can really appreciate when authors really fully dive into what they're doing.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah. I always like Seven Days in June by Tia Williams for this. 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yes. Yeah.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: It's a very emotional, compelling story. Okay. What about for nonfiction readers?  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I think Taylor Jenkins Reid is your answer. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Sure, sure.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Nonfiction... I think I would point them to any historical, truly, maybe not any historical, but there's a lot of research that goes in there. A lot of world building that goes in there. Yeah. maybe India Holton.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: There's also a really fun and wild book out by Gillian Anderson called Want. 
 
 

She's curated this collection of anonymous essays written by women from around the world about desire. And so I really encourage people to explore some of the non-nonfiction genre books that are adjacent to romance and enrich their experience. There's a lot of really accessible, well-written nonfiction and coming out right now too. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Thinking about other genres, like specifically mysteries and thrillers, how do you think the tension in a romance functions compare to the tension in a mystery or a thriller?  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Oh my gosh, I have a theory about this. Okay. My husband writes horror and sometimes I invite him to read romance. And he does. He goes with pleasure and he enjoys some of them as well. 
 
 

And I have a theory that when we read a book, when someone's telling us a story, they're taking us on a journey. We're like, take us. Where do you want us to go? We're trusting you to take us to this place. And in a weird way, if you were to map out like the plot and the journey of the audience, I do think there's an overlap with romance and horror where you're like, "there's this thing that I'm so curious about this. It's so exciting", and you're leading up to it. 
 
 

And then this incredible climax happens and it's revealed. It's scary and it's thrilling and, at the end of the day some very different things happen in those genres, but... 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Not necessarily if we're reading Brynn Weaver. Maybe not.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: It's true, there's overlap, but I think specifically what the readers are seeking to get out of reading the genres, in a weird way, are actually pretty similar. So I encourage those readers to explore both genres.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I think in both genres--and I'll loop mystery in here too--you sort of already know what's gonna happen. In horror, you expect to be scared. In romance, you expect a happily ever after. 
 
 

In mystery, you expect a dead body. Those are the core tenets of the genres, and so the tension really comes from how the author chooses to take you there. It's not a straight line, it is not a given that X, y, and Z are going to occur on any given story, on any given page, on any given plot line. 
 
 

And so, yeah, it's not really about how it's going to end, it's about how you get there and how it makes you feel on the journey.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yeah. I feel like everything is so relative, and it really depends on how the reader takes it as well. Yeah.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Yeah, it's so common that I find people come into the store and they'll tell me, “Oh my God, this is my favorite book. It changed my whole life. I give it to all my friends", and then a week later someone will come in and be like, "I DNF-ed this book."  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yes. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Everybody's different and it's just about finding the right fit, right?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yes.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Yeah.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yep. I do think it's interesting that in a mystery, you're pretty certain, like the case is gonna be solved at the end of the mystery.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Mm-hmm.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: And I feel like there's way less stigma about reading a mystery, where you know it's gonna have a satisfying ending, versus romance where yes, you know they're gonna end up together, but that's also a satisfying ending. So, I just think it's funny that we don't necessarily notice the similarities and instead focus on what's different about them.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Well, it's not a coincidence that mystery is primarily written by and primarily consumed by men, and romance is not. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: What's happening there? Men?  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I think that's a major part of the stigma around romance, is that it's obviously not for women. It is for everyone, but it is primarily consumed by women. Therefore, it is not worth taking seriously for a lot of people.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: And what is this saying? We're highlighting dramas and tragedy as these heart wrenching, gripping... Yes, yes, absolutely. Romeo and Juliet, so tragic. Big feelings, but do we allow ourselves to experience big joy and if not, what's stopping us? You know?  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah. That is really interesting to think about how things and, in this case, books written or consumed by women have been historically undervalued. And it is part of a larger conversation because it's the same with art, and it's the same with history. Like, they're discovering artifacts, and they're like, "why would they have 28 markings?" 
 
 

And it's like, "That's some lady marking out her cycle". You know, like, duh, that's just the calendar. Or the story of like them finding a knife in the rafters and they're like, "why would they put a knife there? is this a cultural phenomenon?", and it's like, "no, a mom just put it up there so her kid couldn't get to it." 
 
 

So, it is really an interesting piece of a much bigger conversation.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Totally.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: What do you think would change if we talked about romance--I mean, not we specifically, but the greater "we"--talked about romance the way that we talk about literary fiction or science fiction or mystery, or thriller? 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I think people would have bigger hearts. I think that if people read romance as much as they read other genres. They would... this is gonna sound crazy, but I'm on that side of TikTok where people are like, "I broke up with my boyfriend after reading ACOTAR because I now I know how I should be treated", and stuff like that. 
 
 

So, I always say people would have bigger hearts if they read more romance.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: I started reading my first romance in the 1900s--that's how old I am--so there's been this whole journey over the course of about 27 years now where it went from me hiding my books because I didn't really want anybody to know I was reading them, and then I became less self-conscious about it and I had people telling me that they were disappointed in me because they thought better of me than that. I should surely be reading, like, Moby Dick, In the Corner, or War and Peace, not Julie Garwood. 
 
 

Fine, whatever. 
 
 

But I do think there's something to be said for--and this does not apply to every single book in the romance genre. No one should be reading HD Carlton and taking that as romantic advice for your future relationships and how you should be treated--but there are plenty of books in the genre where if you read them at the right time of your life, you come to understand that, like, sexual pleasure is for everyone in the relationship. 
 
 

It is not just for one member. Mutual respect is a thing that you should anticipate. A partner who listens to you is a thing that you should expect and anticipate. a person who is willing to sacrifice for you--not their lives or themselves, but for the balance of the relationship, a give and take on both sides. 
 
 

And I think there's something really powerful in that. I'm not gonna say that romance brought me my marriage of 14 years now, but if he had been anything less than what I had read, I wouldn't have dated him. Do you know what I mean? 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Exactly.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: You know, "romance gives women unrealistic expectations". 
 
 

Well, the bar is in hell. So, let's raise it a little bit, shall we?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I was gonna say, it's funny how we romanticize the bare minimum.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Right? Right.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: But it helps us decipher what is the bare minimum and what's, like, I don't know. It gives us more expectations for sure. Yeah. But these aren't expectations that should be hard to be met. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Correct.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: So. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Yeah. Incredible, loving relationships shouldn't be inherently fantasy.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: This is real life, folks, and I think if more people were reading stories about love and passion and commitment, and just really well-written characters and really well-researched plots by really smart authors, then we are gonna get so many more kick ass TV shows and movies. 
 
 

Let's all just get on board.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: I do think it's interesting. 
 
 

So, the demographics of romance readers is primarily women and it's primarily cis het women, and a friend of mine theorized, "well, are all these women reading these books because their relationship needs are not being met?" 
 
 

Like, are queer people not reading these books because they're in more equal...the model relationship, basically? Or are queer people not reading because they're less represented? So, I wonder if you guys--or men or whoever's not reading--if you guys had any thoughts on...  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: I don't.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: The demographics or the...  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: I don't see queer people not reading. I see queer people reading in the store every time.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah. I agree. Yeah. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Okay, great. Great. 
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: I think it's sort of a Catch-22. If you don't have the book on your shelf, then nobody can check it out. If you don't have the book on your shelves and no one can buy it. So, if you have taken the time to cultivate a space that lets you know as soon as you walk in the door, "you're welcome here. This is a space for you. It was designed with you in mind. This is a space for LGBTQ readers". They will seek you out. 
 
 

So yeah, there're a hundred percent reading stories and I think there's something in common with the experience that gay and queer, LGBTQ readers and writers are having with, like, straight women readership. 
 
 

And it kind of circles back to that same conversation. Like, we want to shed the shame and the stigma of joy and passion and sexuality.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah. I will say I'm not seeing very many men purchasing--in my shop--books for themselves. There are men purchasing books for themselves, but not an enormous amount. 
 
 

What I think we are seeing is a lot of husbands coming in with their wives and the husbands know what their wives...I had one guy standing there the other day being like, you have this one, don't buy that. He knew what was on her bookshelf. And then there was another guy who they had, they were both doing audio together. 
 
 

I think that the act of being in this relationship, and for whatever reason these men... I don't know if they went to therapy--which we recommend for everyone--but they are meeting their partner where they're at and maybe allowing themselves to feel their feelings and allowing themselves to say, "Hey, I too would like some joy". 
 
 

And I think that's really powerful. But it is taking that sort of influence of their female partner introducing the genre to them or saying, "Hey, I really think actually you would like this book". And then they do, and then they realize that there's a whole world open to them. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I can speak from experience with my own fiancé. I always ask him, "why not try to read [romance]?" And his excuse is always, "I don't like reading made up stories. I like to read factual things, or "I like to read things that will help me in life". That's what he used to say, and I'm like, "you know, your TV shows and your movies are made up". 
 
 

Stories, like everything around you that is entertainment is a made-up story. This is just something I always tell him. When you're reading something, you can make up the story in your mind of how things look like, rather than on a TV show or a movie, it's right in front of you. There's not really much room for imagination. 
 
 

So then once I explained that, and he of course was learning that there are nonfiction. Novels that contain romance. He actually started getting into it and it's like that big, "I told you so". For me though, myself, like I do love reading books where sometimes the girl is trying to find herself or even the guy is trying to find himself and find a relationship that. 
 
 

Is right for him or her. Of course. Like I think I like reading those things because I'm at the point where I'm in a happy, healthy relationship and I like others finding that as well. So, I don't think I read those things because I'm unhappy or I'm like lacking something in my relationship. 
 
 

It's because I want other people to find what I have found. So that's like kind of my take on it. And of course, I personally can't speak on the queer community and how they are internally. Taking things, but from what we've seen in our store, like you guys were saying, as long as there is something for everyone, they will take it. 
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yes,  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: for sure.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: So maybe that should have been one of our lightning round prompts for a man who's never read romance, what do we recommend? Where do you start?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: I also feel like for men... I hate to say it, but there's that fear of bruising your masculinity, and if they don't wanna do something that is widely known just for girls. I think it's... in our society just overcoming. 
 
 

Who cares if a male is reading a romance novel? It's 2026, you can do whatever the hell you want. So, I think it's just over. Some men need to overcome their bruised egos a little bit.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Absolutely. A requirement of me marrying my husband was that he needed to read a Julie Garwood book while we were dating. He did that, but he tends to lean toward, like, Stephen King. 
 
 

So again, to recommend for a man, I would first start with "what fiction do you like to read?" And if it is a thriller, then again, I gotta go back to Brynn Weaver. I gotta go to Navessa Allen. Even some of those more literary fantasy, romantasy books. Yeah, you can get there for sure. 
 
 

You just have to find the read alike in their everyday lives. And if they don't typically read, then yeah, I think just give them violence. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: It also depends. Like, when I was reading Lights Out by Navessa Allen and my fiancé would look over and read a few sentences and he's like, "what are you reading?" 
 
 

I feel like men aren't really familiar with the level of smut or the level of how crazy it can be. 
 
 

I think that's when he was like, "wow, so why are you reading this?" And I'm like, "well, it's entertainment for one, but two, I like a journey. It's not always about the destination." 
 
 

It's funny seeing someone who's not really familiar with the bookish worlds learning about a whole subgenre of books; these thrillers and these mysteries and this level of smut. 
 
 

People love this. He was blown away by that.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Have you guys read the Lyssa Kay Adams's Bromance Book Club books?  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: No.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: You know those ones?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: No.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: The first book starts out and it's a bunch of professional athletes and whatever, and the baseball player's marriage is failing and so his buddies are like, "we have to read these romance novels as manuals", and then they meet up and they discuss the book and apply it to his relationship. 
 
 

Then that's, so as the series goes on, it's a different guy in the book club, but it just cracks me up like that. They call it the manual and it just sort of removes that layer of, like, "We're all gonna do this together, right? So it's fine".  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Yes.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: You know. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: My landlord is like a 30-year-old, he's young construction guy, and he didn't know what a romance bookstore was until we even opened one. 
 
 

And it's funny, you can see the progression of him coming in while we're under construction and looking around and then slowly opening the books. And then the next day he went on TikTok and was researching some of the books. And then he would come in and name the book. I'm like, "okay, you're getting there". 
 
 

Yeah. Like I love that you're actually interested in this. Yeah.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: We had a really similar experience with our landlord who is a little bit older, but it, but same. Like, we said "this is what we wanna do". And he kind of went, "what?" And now he's our biggest[supporter]. He's telling everybody and 'cause he's like, "you know, this is, this is huge", and all we had to do was remove that blind spot from his radar and yeah.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Introduced  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was also gonna say, my husband does not have a lot of time to read. It comes and fits and spurts. Typically, it takes him like a month to read a book. 'Cause he is reading 10 pages here, 10 pages here. 
 
 

He, that man sat down on the couch and read, caught up in one sitting.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Wow.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: See, there's a book for every reaction.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: He  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: likes the Mafia Romance.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: He likes his violence. He likes his Steven King. He likes his thriller. My favorite thing to say to people who come in when they buy lights out is to say, as you are reading this, I want you to keep in mind that I have read this. 
 
 

My husband has read this and my mother has read this, and we all manage to make eye contact with each other.  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: That's hilarious.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: That's great. I guess my final question is, if someone listens to this episode and still doesn't think romance is for them, what do you hope they take away anyway?  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: It doesn't have to be for you. 
 
 

You know what I mean? Not everything is made for everyone, but I think at least just give it a chance. Romance seems like such a small category, but it's huge. I feel like it's one of the most versatile genres, at least that I have found, because the, just the amount of sub genres, I feel like there's always something for everyone. 
 
 

You just have to look for it.  
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: Yeah, I agree. I hope they just take away that it is valid. It is not vapid; it is not nonsense. I mean, some of it is, but I get frustrated when people are like, "Isn’t all romance kind of bad and cheesy?" It's like saying, "Isn’t all fiction bad and cheesy?" Like, no, there are good books. 
 
 

There are bad books. As Jenna so eloquently put it, not everything is for everyone. You don't still have to want to read it, but let's just let shed the stigma that romance is totally discountable because it is a driving force in the publishing economy. It keeps the lights on. 
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: Yeah, and in Hollywood... 
 
 

Elizabeth Tucker: yeah,  
 
 

Jenna Zakhour: too.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: If you are listening to this episode and you think romance is not for you, listen again babe, we want you here. Come join the party. Come to the bookstore. We wanna help you find your next great romance, please.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Yeah, I think that would be my advice too is to come talk to someone at the library or at the bookstore and talk about what you like to read. 
 
 

That is honestly the best part of my day here is when people are like, "tell me what people are reading. Tell me what I should read next". And that makes it really fun. And I also love when it goes both ways, like they tell me something we maybe don't have in our collection that we can add, you know? 
 
 

I enjoy talking about books, and I hope that the takeaway is, even if it's not for you, you'll find a way to talk to your librarian or bookseller about what you do like to read.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Definitely. And there's really something to be said too for getting outta your house and putting yourself into these joyful spaces. 
 
 

You know, it's great to have options. Sometimes you just need a book to show up on your doorstep, or you need to plug in your phone. Audiobook options are great. Also, when you take the time to go to the bookstore, when you take the time to join a book club, when you take the time to go to your public library, you're gonna have these little glimmers in your day that you won't find anywhere else. 
 
 

You're gonna make new friends. You’re gonna meet people who say, I think you're really gonna like this book. You're going to find the same kind of joy that you find in the heated rivalry community. You know, watching the show together, the same kind of joy that you find watching your favorite movies together, sharing that experience with other people. 
 
 

Just because reading is a solitary activity doesn't mean you can't share it with other people, so come and join us.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Well said. Do you guys have anything else that you want to touch on before we go? I really appreciate you being here. This was great.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Thank you for having us. For having us. Yeah. We appreciate you. 
 
 

Thank you so much for the work you do.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Thank you. You too.  
 
 

Sarah Borgnis-Tobin: Thank you.  
 
 

Kacie Mexiell: Thank you. All right. Bye guys.  
 
 

Eliza Moyer: How many book discussion groups does the Hamden library system have? What's your guess? One, maybe two? 
 
 

We have five, yes, five different book clubs here at Hamden Public Libraries, and I'll give you a sneak peek into each one so you can find the perfect fit or fits for you. 
 
 

First, we have our OG, the original, the Miller Library Book discussion group. This group meets on the last Monday of each month at 6:30 PM at Miller. You have the option of meeting in person, or you can Zoom in if you prefer to stay home and be comfy in your jammies. This club reads loved, popular and acclaimed fictional titles, and it's a great way to discover new authors, build connections with other community members, and engage in welcoming and respectful dialogue about the books. 
 
 

Our next book club option at Miller is the Shelf Care Book Club. It's what we like to call a kind of book club, being a mix between silent reading and followed by gentle conversation. This club is held in person the first Monday of each month at 6:00 PM. And it has no assigned reading, just a suggested genre selected by the members each month. They cover everything from nonfiction to graphic novels, thrillers, micro genres, and more. The library provides titles from the selected genre for you to choose from, or you can bring whatever you've been reading or want to read. 
 
 

Our third adult book club option takes place at our Whitneyville Branch, the Prose and Cons Book Club--love the play on words--meets the fourth Thursday of the month at 6:30 PM in person each month. Patrons get to choose a book from the specially curated selections our librarian and creates that include literary fiction titles that celebrate diversity of voice style and genre. It's a great way to learn about authors and books that may be a little bit more unknown than our more popular titles. 
 
 

Our fourth option is for our teen patrons in grade 7 through 12. Our Teen Book Club at Miller just relaunched at the end of January, and they will be meeting one Friday a month in the teen area from 3:00 to 4:00 PM. Our teens get to decide each month what book they will be diving into. They also get to create book club themed crafts. 
 
 

It's a low-pressure book club and a great way to meet new friends and also meet our new teen librarian, too. Last but definitely not least is our Page Turners' book club for our patrons ages 8 to 12. The Page Turners meet one Saturday each month from three to 4:00 PM to discuss their chosen book. 
 
 

Besides the engaging discussions, Page Turners always enjoy a little snack and craft, and it's a great way to meet and make new friends and maybe find your favorite new author. We truly do have something for everyone, so please drop in and find the perfect fit or fits for you when it comes to book clubs. 
 
 

You can find more information on our website at HamdenLibrary.org.  
 
 

Michael Pierry: That's all the time we have on this episode. Thanks for listening. See you next time.