Hamden Library Podcast
Hamden Library Podcast
Pride 2025
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In honor of Pride month, our new podcast team member, Eliza, recorded a couple of great interviews with two members of the LGBTQ+ community, Tony Ferraiolo and Jillian Celentano. Tony and Jillian are both very engaging, dynamic speakers, and I hope that you get as much out of listening to them as I did.
CW: Suicide, gender dysphoria
Michael Pierry: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Hamden Library Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Pierry, and in honor of Pride Month, our new podcast team member, Eliza, recorded a couple of great interviews with two members of the LGBTQ+ community, Tony Ferraiolo and Jillian Celentano. I do wanna warn listeners that there is some mention in both interviews of suicide as well as gender dysphoria.
That said, Tony and Jillian are both very engaging, dynamic speakers, and I hope that you get as much out of listening to them as I did. And now I'll pass the mic to Eliza and Jillian Celentano
Eliza Moyer: Welcome to Hamden Library's podcast for the month of June, Pride Month. My name's Eliza, and I am a patron associate here at the library.
Today, I'm excited to introduce Jillian Celentano. She is a trans woman. She is a therapist who has her master's in social work, and her practice focuses on gender-affirming care. She is also a published author, and her book is titled Transitioning Later in Life: A Personal Guide. Today, we're gonna be talking about what Pride Month is, as well as what it's like to be a trans person in today's world.
Hi, Jillian. Thank you for coming in.
Jillian Celentano: Hi. Thanks so much. It's great to be here.
Eliza Moyer: I'm so glad to have you. So first, we're gonna talk a little bit about what Pride is. So some people think it's more of a recent, like, DEI-type thing, but Pride actually began back in 1969 after the Stonewall riots.
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm.
Eliza Moyer: It was a criminal offense to be gay in '69, and the Stonewall Inn was a safe place for the LGBTQIA+ community to gather and be themselves. They were constantly targeted by police, and then on Friday, June 28th, 1969, tensions hit an all-time high. The police raided Stonewall, and it ended in riots and six days of protests.
The following year, they had the first what was considered Gay Pride Parade to commemorate the Stonewall riots, and to march for liberation. I just want you to tell me a little bit about what does Pride mean to you?
Jillian Celentano: Sure. You know, I hear you say that, and I'm like, "Is that 1969 or 2025?" Hmm. Um, no.
Pride is very important because to me, Pride is all about community, and especially a marginalized community that seems to be always facing, you know, obstacles. So when you see these Pride events or we celebrate it in June and all year long for that matter, it's just a reminder that we are not alone, we do have a strong community, we need to continue the fight, and it's just about being with each other.
And I always tell people, if you've never been to a Pride event, you wanna talk about unconditional love, go to a Pride event. Nobody judges.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: Everybody is just everybody, something the world should take some lessons from.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. and you kinda touched on it a little bit, but how would you approach explaining the significance of Pride to someone who's not familiar with Pride?
Jillian Celentano: Just that- again, we do this because we remind each other that we are out there and we need others. It's, to support. And someone who's never been, like I just said, is to go there without judgment. People have preconceived thoughts on what this is. When I try to explain a Pride event, the only way that I can say is you have to go.
I could talk about how great it is, how non-judgmental it is, but if you're not there, there's just no words. So simply go to an event just for 10 minutes. It doesn't mean you're gay, it doesn't mean you're trans. Just go and experience it, and then you can make a judgment.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. And you just actually touched on something else I was gonna ask, is how can allies participate in Pride Month in a way that centers LGBTQIA+ voices?
And you just mentioned one of those things, showing up and supporting. Is there anything else?
Jillian Celentano: Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah. We so need allies, especially today. it's very important. So allies, it's really voices showing up at Pride events. When there are bills trying to be passed, especially anti-trans bills, write, talk, call your congressman, call your representative and let them know how you feel about it, you know?
That's so important. Right now, that political push is super important. I don't know. Maybe pronouns. Yeah, say your pronouns to someone. They would love that. I think it's just really showing up, having a voice and being there, and just letting us know, like, "Hey, we're on your side."
Eliza Moyer: Love that. Absolutely. Why do you feel some people are offended by Pride Month and Pride Month celebrations?
Jillian Celentano: You know, that's a great question, and I often think about that. I think, I know of course it's gonna come from a therapeutic thing, but I think it's just how they view themselves. I think the people who are more offended by a Pride event just are more unhappy with themselves.
For some reason, I don't know how it affects them. I don't know why it matters what I dress in, how that affects your everyday life. But, I just think it's, I think that's internalized, people who find it offensive. You know, if you're a happy person, will you care? Will you... Like, if, you're happy, no one's gonna care what everyone else is doing.
So I, I just look at it that way, and it, you know, it's unfortunate. I always... The other thing I say is, "You don't have to get it, just respect it." So you don't have to go to a Pride event. You can turn the other way, but it doesn't mean, you know, it has... If it offends you, then I would say go see a therapist.
Eliza Moyer: So, talking about therapy, what is, something that you're seeing right now among gender-diverse people in your practice with the current state of affairs?
Jillian Celentano: Yeah, I think right now it's fear. It's the not knowing what's going to happen, although things are happening right now not in our favor, and I'm seeing, a lot of people just trying to figure out how to handle this.
I'm comparing this to COVID. Remember when COVID happened, we didn't know whether to wear a mask, how far to distance.
Eliza Moyer: Yes.
Jillian Celentano: Remember we just kind of got through it? We're kind of in that with this attack on gender and everything. So I'm... We're all, as therapists, I think we're trying and learning as we go.
And I notice, depending on the age of my clients, a lot of younger clients don't have the words or don't wanna talk about their fear, so I see them acting out in anger, isolation, you know, grades being affected. So they're, acting out in a lot of ways, and that's what really concerns me.
And then, the older folks, they're just, "I don't know what I'm gonna do," a lot of that. So I always revert back to community. We still have our community, and this is why we need to stay strong with this. But yeah, there's definitely been a lot of fear
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, the community, that's great advice-
Jillian Celentano: Yeah
Eliza Moyer: to take solace.
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm.
Eliza Moyer: What do you think people should know about how society impacts transgender mental health? And first, actually, maybe we should define what transgender and cisgender are. Could you tell me?
Jillian Celentano: Oh, sure.
Eliza Moyer: Okay.
Jillian Celentano: Yeah, so, when you identify as a trans person it, simply put, it basically means your assigned gender at birth and your gender identity are different.
So how you feel, just how you are, who you are as a person maybe doesn't quite match your physical body. And, and when we say transgender, I just don't mean, like, the binary of trans men, trans women. I also... That includes non-binary folks, genderqueer, all... I just wanna make sure it's an umbrella term for everyone.
So, being trans is just when we don't, we just don't align with our gender assigned at birth. And then, we say cisgender. That means those are for folks who do, when their bodies does align with their gender identity.
Eliza Moyer: Got it. So yeah, going back, what should people know about how society impacts transgender mental health?
And we can say that as the umbrella term.
Jillian Celentano: Yeah, sure. Oh, gosh, so much. You know, we never wanna validate ourselves on society and how they react to us, but look, we're human.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: Okay. And as strong as we may seem to be, and resilient, even including myself, I mean, I'm always up here fighting the fight, when I see negative stuff, whether it's on the news or people talking, it hurts.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: It hurts when... I don't think people realize, look, if you wanna hurt us, yeah, you're wa- you know, be proud of yourselves. You're hurting us, if that's something you wanna be proud of.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: But it impacts us. It impacts every single person in some way and in some form. But then when society is supportive, it's gender joy, you know?
It's just a such a good feeling. It's the opposite. So I love when someone talks positive, especially strangers, or if I overhear someone, it's a really, really good feeling. So society does impact us-
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely
Jillian Celentano: ... very much.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. speaking along those lines as well, I guess my question is kind of with social media, how does that impact the community?
Is it more of a positive impact? Is it more of a negative impact? Like, what role has, like, TikTok and Instagram, social media, what has that played for the transgender community?
Jillian Celentano: I think it plays both ends.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: You know, we immediately, when we talk about social media, it's a negative thing, and yeah, there's a lot of bad stuff out there.
There's the doom scrolling, but- You have to be careful where you go. Like, you can find anything on social media. If you wanna be positive and good stuff, you'll find it. If you want negative and bad stuff, you'll find it. So I mean, especially for younger folks, it's crucial for parents to be involved with what they're seeing.
However, if I had social media when I was younger, I probably would've transitioned a lot earlier. So there's a lot of helpful, and there's a lot of good resources. There's a- you know, I'm on social media, so you know, you can find me, but then there's the negative. Yeah. Then there's the ooh, so bad, so m- and such impactful.
So social media, it's a double-edged sword-
Eliza Moyer: Yeah ...
Jillian Celentano: I would say I've seen both.
Eliza Moyer: I agree.
Jillian Celentano: And TikTok is very dangerous.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: Oof. Because, and then you get into algorithms, and then when... I mean, one thing, can I give an example is-
Eliza Moyer: Sure ...
Jillian Celentano: When I work with tran- younger trans girls, they only see these beautiful girls on TikTok, you know?
And they think, "Look, I can't look like that. They're happy." Like, it's just portraying a very fake... And I have to try to reiterate that, you know-
Eliza Moyer: Yeah ...
Jillian Celentano: that's just, it- it's fake. You know?
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: And unfortunately, that's a big battle.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, definitely. I'm gonna just say a little something here for myself.
So I am present on TikTok as well, and I actually know Jillian in real life, and I use the platform actually to advocate for my own son, who is also trans, and it's been really helpful 'cause I have had people reach out and say, "Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't understand that." So there are some of us out there really trying to put the positive message and really help educate people and help them understand, 'cause a lot of times I think it's just fear of the unknown.
What would you say your hopes for the next generation of trans individuals is?
Jillian Celentano: Oh my gosh. It's... I tell them, simply put, it's just up to you to save us all. You know, I joke with them.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, yeah.
Jillian Celentano: I'm sure hoping the next generation... 'Cause when I- I mostly work with younger folks and teens, and, like, they are just...
They have such a great view on this topic and everything, you know? They don't care about gender. They just care about the environment. They care about, you know, fairness, and I tell them, it's like, "You can change this. This is gonna be in your hands." And I try to remind them that they do have the power, and they will, and I really hope...
I think that I, as a matter of fact, everything going on now is only going to strengthen, I think, what they're gonna do with the world and how they wanna change it, so.
Eliza Moyer: I sure hope so. I hope it's, the continual, you know, a step back but two steps forward kind of thing.
Jillian Celentano: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, this is the history, right?
This is history. We've gone through all different kinds of tough things, and the pendulum swings back and forth, so.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, absolutely.
Jillian Celentano: I think we'll come out on the other side.
Eliza Moyer: So talking about younger people and talking about gender-affirming care, one of the biggest arguments is that people who have gender-affirming care tend to have a high level of regret. I did a little digging into this, and the percent of regret is actually lower than most other elective surgeries if we're talking about the surgery portion.
The American Journal for Surgery said that 5.1 to 9.1% of patients who had, like, a breast augmentation regret having that surgery. Between 10 and 30% of people who had body contouring regret having body contouring. There were 27 different studies of 7,928 patients that were trans, and the regret percent was less than 1%.
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm.
Eliza Moyer: Tell me why you think that people use this as a primary argument about not providing gender-affirming care.
Jillian Celentano: I think the number one thing is they don't understand. They are afraid of it, they listen to the wrong people, and then they developed their perception, unfortunately, on lies and untruths.
And you're right, the percentage, like, they just came out with this big report, and it's simply lies. It's great. They can get anyone to say, I think it's like, "98% of trans people regret this", when it's just the opposite. And you're right, I will back this up, the American Medical Association, the American Association of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, WPATH.
I mean, I'll name all these medical professionals that set the care for diabetes, for cancer treatment, and they all say gender-affirming care makes a difference. And you're right, 1%. Let's talk about the 1% a second if you wanna do that.
Eliza Moyer: Sure.
Jillian Celentano: So of the 1%, now follow me on this 83% of the 1%... regret detransition. But the reasons, most of the reasons, over 80% of the reasons are because they were threatened to get kicked out of their homes. Maybe physically they had a bad experience with hormones. They were gonna lose their job. They're gonna lose their family, society, getting hurt.
So they're forced to detransition, but they use that in that 1%. So really it's a fraction. And look, nothing is absolute. I'm not saying, you know, there are people who do regret it, and I get it, but I have worked, I have interned at the Yale Gender Program, who sees thousands of folks. I've worked with this population for the last nine years, and I can tell you there was one person who was on blockers who decided they didn't wanna be on blockers.
That was it. Nobody ever regret it. As a matter of fact, the people, especially the young folks that I work with, are now in college, which makes me feel old. They are accelerating. They're so happy, and they're comfortable, and they're getting education. And every once in a while they send me emails and say, like, "Thank you for supporting me." So we don't hear any of this. It's all lies. 100% lies when you hear those regret numbers.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. I appreciate you clarifying that. I think that's a really important point to make, for sure. So tell me about the process to receive gender-affirming care, and maybe a little bit about, like, the regulations or how things are changing right now.
Jillian Celentano: So there's a lot of, again, a lot of myths about gender-affirming care. So I'm just gonna touch base on it really quick.
Eliza Moyer: Sure.
Jillian Celentano: No child is going to school and coming back a different gender, number one. But people believe that because a certain person says it, they follow everything they say. There are no surgeries on children, okay, young children.
There are no hormones given to a child before puberty, okay? Puberty blockers, gender-affirming care. People are all up in rage about puberty blockers. Well, guess what? They've been using those for years, and years, and years on kids with precocious puberty, go into puberty too early. Safe ... Nobody complains about that.
But the reason changes, now it's diabolical. but no child, young children are having surgeries or hormones. And then if someone does decide to start blockers or cross-hormone therapy or have surgeries, you know, they say 18 is the suggested [age]. I know there's a few exceptions with maybe 15 and 16 for top surgeries, but the results are amazing.
I've seen kids start blockers or have top surgeries. They went from me trying to keep them alive every week to the happiest people in the world. Again, nobody reports that, and as you can tell, I'm getting all worked up here . You're passionate. But it angers me. And when people, including politicians and everybody, have an opinion on this, not one of them, I guarantee you not one of them has any education in this, has never probably even talked to a trans person, has never stepped foot in a gender clinic, and has never talked to a medical professional.
It's just based on their beliefs. I will ... and it just angers me. When someone tells me I'm wrong, the first thing I ask them is, "Well, what do you do for a living?" You know? And if they answer me and say, they'll say, "I'm a mechanic," then I'm gonna come to your shop and I'm gonna tell you, "You're doing it all wrong. I'm gonna fix the carburetor."
I have never picked up a tool in my life and been a mechanic.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: So how can I ... You would be pissed. How can you tell me my job if I can't tell you your job? And that's what's going on out there, and it really upsets me.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Jillian Celentano: I just wish people could see what we see.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely.
Jillian Celentano: And it's beautiful, and these kids are so happy with their gender-affirming care. It's life-saving medicine
Eliza Moyer: Can you tell me- you were talking about like how excited and happy they are, what gender dysphoria is-
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm
Eliza Moyer: ... and what that looks like when they do receive gender affirming care?
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm. Gender dysphoria. I don't even think there are words to describe how hard and how debilitating gender dysphoria is. Gender dysphoria is when... this is not saying, "I'm too fat, I'm too short, I'm too tall." This is saying, "My body parts and my whole body is the wrong gender on some scale."
And then our brain perceives to trick us into saying, you know... I've seen the most beautiful person or the most handsome guy, trans people, have gender dysphoria. Because it really depends on the support around us, I think makes gender dysphoria worse or better. But it's just an illu[sion]- you know, we see ourselves as just being in the wrong body.
We hate our body parts. And it's hard, that's one of the most difficult things to deal with. Someone with gender dysphoria, they say, "I'm ugly," and the last thing you wanna say to them, "No, you're beautiful." Because, you know, then they think you're lying to them. It really works as to why do you feel you're ugly?
What's bothering you? You know, you have to go a little bit deeper. But gender dysphoria is in all of us. I deal with it. The days when I'm having dysphoric days, I can't leave the house. Other days when I'm not, I feel fine. So it's just a, it's a, it's a- It, it, it, like I said, you see I'm struggling to use words.
It's just a horrible feeling of we're not- we're seeing ourselves, like we're just very ugly-
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm ...
Jillian Celentano: I guess you could say.
Eliza Moyer: Gotcha. How old were you, and I'm sure, I know reading your book a little bit, you talked-
Jillian Celentano: Mm-hmm ...
Eliza Moyer: about the questions you get very often being a trans woman. How old were you when you really started to feel gender dysphoria or when you realized that there was something different for you?
Jillian Celentano: You know, again, it's different for everybody, but for me, I was about five years old when I realized there was something not right. And as I started to learn about gender and what gender was, I felt, oh, wait a minute, I was pretty much feeling like a girl. I wanted to be with the girls. I wanted to play with the girls.
I kinda just melded into that world. But I was told I was a boy and that was wrong and, you know. So I hid it. I hid it. And again, no social media, no support, and, it was a tough life. It was... I pretended and I had suicidal ideations. I had anxiety, depression, very introverted, and it was a tough life. So this, my journey began a long time ago at five, but it took me 50 years to finally say, "Enough."
Eliza Moyer: What was your turning point? Where did you come out that you were like, "Okay, this is enough. I want to be myself"?
Jillian Celentano: I think it was, I was married twice 'cause I thought getting married, you know, that would cure me 'cause men marry women, you know. but it was soon after my second marriage. I came to realize I didn't like who I was becoming because I really hurt her.
It was a five-year marriage, and I felt horrible to see how much I hurt her and others. Because I couldn't love someone, because I hated myself, so you can't love someone if you hate yourself. But I also was, I'm really a kind and caring person, so after that, I kind of thought about either I'm going to transition or I'm going to un-alive myself, and that scared me.
That scared me. So it came down to that, and luckily for me, I was seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression, but I was too afraid to come out to her. Took me two years, but that day, I decided I was going to because if not, I was going to end my life. and that's where it changed because she was, she got me on the right path.
And yeah, and then that's when things started to change, and then I realized it was okay to be myself. And I was done pretending. I was tired. I was tired of being an actor for 55 years. So I took the leap of faith and I started it, and that's why I'm a therapist, 'cause a therapist saved my life and I hope I can change at least one person's life, then I'll consider myself successful.
But that was my turning point. It was either not live or be who I am.
Eliza Moyer: I'm happy you are who you are- ... for all of us. I wanna touch on what do you feel are some ways we can better support the LGBTQIA+ individuals who may be struggling in their identity, struggling to come out to family or friends, or who, like myself, came out later in life and like yourself came out later in life. What can we do to better support them?
Jillian Celentano: You know, just make yourself visible as in any way you can. Whether... I always say the simplest little thing you do is wear a pin. It doesn't have to be, you know, a trans pin, just ally or a pronoun pin, right? Something like that would...
You might be the person, like here at the library, there might be a kiddo really struggling, but if they see you wearing a pin, they will probably, if they're gonna talk to someone, it would be you. So I think it's making yourself as visible as you can. Talk about ally stuff. Talk about, you know, showing up, again, showing up to events.
a combination of that because if I can see you, then that, especially for folks, especially now, coming out is terrifying. so if we could see some people out there, I think as simple as that will make a big difference.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So Jillian, as part of your advocacy and your work, you do support groups with youth and both parents.
I know part of your mission is supporting parents so they can fully accept their children before, during, and after a transition process. Can you tell me a little bit more, in what you have to say to parents who maybe aren't on board with their children coming out to them, telling them, you know, how they're feeling about themselves, whether it's for different, religious, spiritual, you know, whatever reasons that they have.
How do you support them? What do you have to say to them?
Jillian Celentano: That is a great question, and there's so many levels on this. So, the first thing I like to really reiterate is if your child had all the support in the world, right? Every school, every library, everything, their whole support system was wonderful.
If the parents are not on board, that, that doesn't mean a thing. Parents are everything. Now, here's the thing. A child probably has known this for years when they come out to a parent, and so yeah, a lot of parents may be shocked. A lot of parents may go, "Oh, no." A lot of parents maybe know, you know, they're going to be probably resistant at first 'cause they don't understand it.
Okay, so I respect parents so much in how they bring their kiddos up. I'm 100%. So, when a child comes out to a parent, I always say, "Okay, just listen to 'em." That's all you gotta do. Don't bring, if you can-- hold on, this is a little DBT work here. Take a step back, just let 'em say what they wanna say.
And regardless of your beliefs and all that, and I respect that, take a step back and say, "Okay, this is really new to me. I need to process this." Don't say bad things. You don't even have to say good things. Just say, all you can say is, "I'm glad, I'm glad you came out." You know, "I'm glad you came to me with this."
Then if you need to freak out, you freak out in front of Jillian. You freak out in front of friends. You say, "No way. This is wrong." You don't do it in front of your kids.
So getting that done, get yourself educated. Talk to somebody. Talk to people who know about gender identity. I also tell the kiddos, "you can't expect your parents to be 100% on board when you just hit 'em with this."
"You need to be patient. You've known this your whole life. They've just found this out 15 minutes ago". So I also tell the kiddos as well.
And several things with the parents. This is not a choice, okay? This is not a choice. This is who your child is. And some of the things I say, "Are you gonna love your child only because of their gender?"
You know? If it's a different gender, you're not gonna love your child anymore? Your support is gonna be everything.
Tell you what, with younger kids, why don't you just for a little while say, "Okay, why don't you use their name and pronouns they ask you to?" And then there's no chemicals, there's no surgeries, right?
And then why don't you monitor their mood? Watch how quickly this probably depressed and angry child becomes very, very different, very, very positive, very, very happy. Watch the grades. Watch everything. I'm just saying, do a little experiment. Say, "I'll do this for six months," you know. Again, that evidence alone will show you that this is real.
Nobody... We know our genders. Nobody's doing this just for a phase, okay? We'll figure it out. Give your children the space to let them explore. Let them explore name and pronouns. Pronouns may change. They may go from they/them to he/him, back to they/them, to she/her. Who cares? This is exploration. All you can do is give your kids room for exploration.
And the other thing I tell folks, parents, is "Why don't you tell your children, 'The more you tell me, the more I love you'?"
Like, "I love you more. Keep telling me more about you. That makes me love you more."
Oh my God, could you imagine, like, how welcoming? And if there are religious beliefs and if there are different backgrounds, I respect that, and I know it's difficult, okay?
But maybe there's other other folks you can talk to about this. But in the end, this is your child. You want your child to be happy. And I... Look, and I know this is scary, especially today. I know when a child comes out, you're like, "No, you, no, this is... I'm..." You don't wanna let your fears, you don't wanna put your fears on your child, okay?
We'll navigate. We, like I'm a kid. I'm saying as a trans person, we will navigate the hard things. Yeah, it's gonna be hard. This is a hard journey. This is a dangerous journey now, but it's also fulfilling. There's so much happiness. There's so much gender joy that... And we just wanna live. I didn't wanna start living until after I transitioned.
I mean, I went back to school. I went undergrad. I went to master's. I wrote a book. I became an extrovert person. The... and this was the support. I mean, my mom, who's 91, supports me, you know? And to me, that's everything. So if you... Before you react quickly, just take a breath, say, "All right, I'm listening. I need to process this." Talk to people, but don't be so negative in the beginning.
Do your homework, and then take it from there. I know that was a lot. I know I said a lot, but again, parent, your support as parents is 100% everything.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. Thank you. How do you envision a truly inclusive society? What does that look like?
Jillian Celentano: Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's pretty simple. It's pretty simple. Just let us be.
Eliza Moyer: Just mind your business.
Jillian Celentano: Just... Yeah. Like, yeah. I... You know, don't... Just go on with your life. You don't have to go out of your way. You don't have to get out of your lane to come into my lane, you know? and that, that's the simple thing. We all, like all my trans community, we're all like, "Why do people care what we do, what we look like?"
Like, we don't bother anybody. We're just functioning in society, you know? And, that's the simple answer to that. Just go on. Don't worry.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I wanna just touch on, because we are a library, and we're open to everybody- Yep ... and, you know, we try and spread as much information as we can.
And you being a author yourself, I just wanted you to tell me a little bit about your book, Transitioning Later in Life: A Personal Guide. What... And you've touched on this a little bit, but tell me a little bit more about what inspired you to write it. and just a little side note, this book is in the Hamden Miller Library collection, so if you wanna check it out yourself, please do that.
But yeah, tell me a little bit what inspired you actually to put word to paper.
Jillian Celentano: Great question. You know, I always tell folks I'm not a writer. but as I began doing more public speaking, I realized the impact it was having on people's lives. And then the pandemic came, and I live alone, and boy, was I isolating.
So that's when I decided, well, if people are really interested in my talks, why don't I write a book? I had nothing else to do day and night. So I started just typing. I just typed. And, as I typed, I was basically telling my story, but also I wanted it to be an inspirational book, and I wanted to share experiences.
So it's a little bit, yeah, part of it's my life and my journey, but it's also about funny experiences, not so funny experiences, how I navigate the world, how the world navigates me. But more importantly, I wanted the book to relay that once you love and accept who you are, you are unstoppable. And so many people, I don't think love or accept who they are.
And so that's really the book is not only my journey, but also getting people to love and you know who you are. It's okay. It's okay.
Eliza Moyer: Such a beautiful message. Yeah. And it's so true. Yeah. Absolutely. If people wanna find you, where can they find you? If they wanna reach out, if they'd like to work with you or talk to you, how can they find you?
Sure.
Jillian Celentano: I mean, they could always start with the Hamden Library. I do have a website. It's transawareness101.com. That's probably the easiest way to contact me, but I'm pretty easy. You know, you Google me, I'm all over the place on Google, apparently. And, so if, you need guidance or you need help or looking for therapy or whatever, I work at a great practice that only works with the LGBTQ+ folks.
I will always go out of my way to find you what you need if this is something you're considering.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely, and I can vouch. My personal experience with Jillian has actually been amazing, and she has been tremendously helpful to me and my family. So I highly recommend reaching out to her if you're looking for some guidance.
I really appreciate you being here today. I appreciate you being candid and open and answering these questions from your heart. in closing, is there anything else that you would like people to know about trans people or know about yourself?
Jillian Celentano: I think if you can take a little time just to, to get some education.
We're just, you know, human beings, and we have feelings, and we just wanna be in society. We're not here, you know, to infiltrate in this diabolical plan to hurt everybody. But I think it's just for never forgetting we're just human beings, and we're not here to change anything. We're just here to exist.
Eliza Moyer: Thank you, Jillian. I really appreciate- Mm-hmm ... your candor today.
Jillian Celentano: Of course. Thank you so much for letting me, come here today and talk.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely.
Jillian Celentano: Awesome.
Eliza Moyer: Thank you.
Jillian Celentano: Thank you
Eliza Moyer: Hi, everyone. Happy Pride Month. My name is Eliza. I'm a member of the Hamden Library staff, and today I have the honor of speaking with Tony Ferriolo.
Tony is an internationally known life coach, motivational speaker, and trainer. He has dedicated himself to promoting competent and respectful healthcare for the transgender community by educating providers and advocating on behalf of their patients. Tony has started multiple support groups for transgender and non-binary youth and their families, and he currently continues his advocacy as the Director of Youth and Family Programming at Healthcare Advocates International.
He is the subject of the award-winning documentary, A Self Made Man, and he is the author of the Artistic Expressions of Transgender Youth series, as well as his recently released memoir, Finding My Way out of Darkness: How I Found Self-Love and Acceptance. Hi, Tony.
Tony Ferriolo: Hey, what's up?
Eliza Moyer: Welcome.
Tony Ferriolo: Thanks for having me.
Thanks for having- Thanks for having me. Super excited.
Eliza Moyer: Thank you for coming. Did I miss anything in that intro that you wanna add on there?
Tony Ferriolo: No, that was perfect.
Eliza Moyer: You do a lot.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, there's a lot, but that was good. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Eliza Moyer: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming today. Really appreciate having you here.
We're gonna talk a little bit about Pride, what Pride means to you, and a little bit more about, like, your lived experiences as a trans man.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. Sounds good.
Eliza Moyer: Okay, awesome. first I just wanna start off by asking you what does Pride mean to you personally?
Tony Ferriolo: You know, I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that question, and I think last year's answer is different than this year.
Eliza Moyer: Mm.
Tony Ferriolo: Pride to me this year I think means even more that we stand out when we stand proud, and we find joy and we hold space for the trans people in our community that are really suffering, the people that are being targeted, and but we do it in a way where we comfort and we celebrate at the same time.
So that's what it means to me this year, is to really show the resilience of celebration.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: And they're not gonna get us down.
Eliza Moyer: How do you approach explaining the significance of Pride to somebody who's maybe not familiar with what Pride really is or what it stands for?
Tony Ferriolo: You know, a lot of people ask me, like especially if they're not within the community, like, we don't have parades.
Well, you're not being denied rights, and you're not being, you know, treated differently, and you're not being attacked, and you're not being murdered, for who you are. So when, we stand, when we say pride, it's really proud, that we're standing and telling people we're proud of who we are, and we deserve to be in this world.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. Absolutely. why do you think some people are offended by Pride celebrations?
Tony Ferriolo: You know, I think we chall- you know, the LGBTQIA plus LMNOP- ... community, we challenge people.
We are, like I said, it's not easy being out, but I'm out and proud. And as a trans person, I know that puts me in some dangerous situations. So people can look at me and say, "Whoa," like, you know, "I would never be able to do that." And sometimes people who aren't in the community and are haters, that fuels them.
Like, how dare he? How dare he be out and be happy, you know?
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you have to say to somebody who comes at you personally, I guess, and attacks you personally as a trans person? Do you have that happen? Is that something
Tony Ferriolo: that- Well, yeah, you know, it's like, I always ask the question, let them say what they're gonna say, and then I just say, you know, "I just have a question, like why is my identity upsetting you so much?"
And they never can answer the question. And then I'll say something like, you know, "Listen," like, "you're never gonna understand me because you're not me." Cisgender people will never understand what it's like to be transgender, and transgender people will never understand what it's like to be cisgender. And I always tell the cis community is that, "Listen, I don't know what it's like to be born in the body that matches my identity, but I certainly would never hate or hurt you because of it.
I accept that this is who you are, and I move on."
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: You know? And the only thing that matters to me is, and, you know, if you wanna be in my personal bubble- and let me tell you, it's a fun bubble to be in, okay- you just have to be kind. You have to be somebody who has empathy for people, somebody that, you know, if you see somebody struggling, you go up to them and say, "How can I help you?"
That's the only thing. I don't care about anything else. But people are so focused on difference that they can't get out of their own way.
Eliza Moyer: It's so true. So for people that do support Pride, that they are allies, how do you think they can participate in Pride Month, in a way that centers LGBTQIA+ voices?
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, like, you know, super-duper allies are different than allies. So, in my mind- my mind works in very mysterious ways. But if you wanna be a super-duper ally, you stand beside us. You don't stand behind us or in front of us, especially in front of us. And if you wanna advocate for somebody in the community, advocate for us when we're not in the space.
That is super important. And if we are in the space, and just say you and I are hanging out, and somebody comes over and they, misgender me. You know, and believe it or not, I know you would probably, you don't see me, but I still get misgendered by people that knew me before I transitioned. If you're, you should, say to me, "Hey, Tone, listen, if we're ever somewhere and you get, you know, misgendered, do you want me to step in?"
Because sometimes we don't. You know, I know sometimes if, depending on the emotional space that I'm in or the situation that I'm in, I might just let them say it and I just, I'll correct them or I'll just ignore it, you know? So asking how to support us is super important.
Eliza Moyer: Nice. Yeah. I think that boundary is a really good one to have, for sure.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: What's something you wish everyone knew about being transgender?
Tony Ferriolo: That it's not a choice. You know, I've been working with kids for how long now? Almost 20 years. I know the pain that comes along with not being accepted and feeling like you're not being seen, and people saying, "That's not who you are."
They know who they are. I know who I am. So it's not a choice to be trans, you know? Unfortunately, a lot of us don't have the choice to be ourselves because of barriers like, you know, lack of access to healthcare and just the not being supported by family and/or friends.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: You know?
Eliza Moyer: I think it's great how you are really there for those kids that need support when they don't have a parent or family or somebody in their corner.
Like, I've seen firsthand that you really do amazing work.
Tony Ferriolo: Well, thank you.
Eliza Moyer: And you really have these kids', you know, hearts and, you know, everything at heart.
Tony Ferriolo: I was that kid-
Eliza Moyer: Yeah ...
Tony Ferriolo: back in the day, but I didn't have anybody.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. And now you are that somebody-
Tony Ferriolo: Now I'm that somebody ... for so many kids.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah, yeah. I love it. It makes me so happy. Well, how does it feel, and you touched on this a little bit, to be trans right now in 2025 with everything going on?
Tony Ferriolo: Thinks it's, I think it's sad.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: I think it's sad that what's happening in this country, that we're blatantly being attacked and, you know, they're really trying, the new administration's really trying to wipe us out of existence, and it shouldn't be that way.
We have enough stuff in this country and in this world to focus on than the 1% of the population, or 2%, whatever it is now. Okay? We shouldn't be focusing on this. We should be focusing on the, economy. How's that? Like, make sure everybody can eat, make sure everybody has healthcare, you know? I just think it's a sad time for us, but then again, this is when we have to stand up and fight even more and stronger.
And, you know, when I was talking with- So I, myself and Eric Carson, who's a filmmaker, we did a short film called American Mamas, and the idea was, and I approached him, I said, "Listen, I have this thought about a short film. I wanna talk to moms before the election, and then I wanna talk to them right after the election."
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: And Sarah Celotto, who's actually my co-host for "Prideful Connections" podcast said- and I agree with this- the majority of the people that voted for our new president, they don't hate LGBTQ+ people. They were voting it because of their own personal reasons, food or the whatever it was. But it doesn't matter, because the kids especially feel like the country hates them.
And we have to tell them that they don't. For the President of the United States to stand there and say being trans is ridiculous, and you have a kid that's suffering already. Listen, my visits to psych units have skyrocketed unfortunately. But the fortunate thing is that there's more people doing the work with these kids.
Mel Cordner from Q Plus, and there's a lot of people that are doing work now, and we know how to get to their hearts, and we know how to keep them alive. And that's what, that's gonna be our work until everything gets straightened out.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. So one of the things that people often say is that they feel that children are too young to make decisions and that they have regret after they have gender affirming surgery.
What is your... When people say that to you, "Well, these kids, they're gonna make this decision and then down the road they're gonna regret it."
Tony Ferriolo: Well, first of all, let's talk about the kids making the decision. That is not the case. There is no child knocking on a provider's door saying, "Give me a blocker," or, "Give me T," or, "Give me estrogen," or, "I need this."
That is not what's happening. My community, I believe, is the only community that really for everything that we need health-wise needs to has a...therapist letter. So it's not. It's the parents, it's the kid, it's the therapist, it's the primary care person, and then it's the specialized physician that makes that makes this decision to say, "Yeah, you know what?
This is what this kid needs." It's not the kid knocking on the provider's door.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: You know? We have to think about that.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. There's a, the... We do research. Like, we really do. Like, you're making a decision for your child and with your child that is gonna affect their life forever. You can darn well believe I'm going to be reading every article I can, making sure I'm making the best decision for
Tony Ferriolo: my child. Yeah, and then about, like, de-transitioning or, you know, I always, I don't like that word. I call it shift in gender journey. Let's- has anybody asked people why?
I know that a few times over the past, you know, 18 years that I've been really engrossed in the work, a few times I had some kids that said, "You know what? I'm not gonna do this anymore."
And it wasn't because they didn't want to. It was because they weren't getting the support that they needed. So when they went off to college, they transitioned. So we need to ask people why. So it's all, like people need to think about what people are saying.
Every major medical organization in the United States, I think it was 1.3 million providers, support gender-affirming care for kids. Why? Because there's been research, and it's life-saving, and we see it in the work. Kids stop self-harming. They start thriving in school, and it's only because we gave them what they needed.
Eliza Moyer: Exactly. Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: You know?
Eliza Moyer: Yes. I've actually seen that firsthand for myself with my own son.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: When he started receiving the care he deserved, like a whole different person emerged.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: And it's his authentic self, and it's beautiful to see.
Tony Ferriolo: And I wish that the people that are saying these things and fighting against the right for these kids to have what they need, they're not sitting in psych units with eight-year-olds that just tried to kill themselves.
They're not seeing the pain and the suffering. And that's what really upsets me. It's like, don't say you know if you're not in it, you know? So-
Eliza Moyer: Yeah ...
Tony Ferriolo: again, just saying.
Eliza Moyer: So I'm gonna kinda jump trains a little bit.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: What do you feel is the role of media in shaping perceptions and awareness about transgender issues, and do you feel it's mostly more helpful or more hurtful?
Tony Ferriolo: The media needs to get on top of this and be truthful, period. And not sensationalize trans people. You know, I hosted a TV show, a miniseries for A&E called Transitioning, and I'll never forget it. They wanted me to say certain things. Be like- I went around the country and coached three, young trans people through social transition, and they wanted me to say certain things.
And I remember looking at the camera and saying, "Hey, listen, I'm not saying that. I'm not sensationalizing my community. You asked me to do this show. Find somebody else. I'm not doing it." It's people standing up and saying, "You know what? Let's talk about the, people that are really targeted in this community."
Black trans women are murdered more than anyone in our community. Why aren't we talking about this? Why don't they cover Trans Day of Remembrance? Why aren't they covering things when trans people get murdered just for being trans? They're not covering, so people just don't see that part of it, and they think that we're all, like, skipping down Main Street with rainbow flags in our hands.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: And that's not the case.
Eliza Moyer: That's not the truth, for sure. What else do you think can be done to combat widespread misinformation about gender-affirming care that's rampant on social media or published in mainstream media? Like for example, The New York Times or The Atlantic have published things that are not true.
How do you, combat that?
Tony Ferriolo: You know, I think that if you feel safe doing so--'cause now we have to say that--I think more people need to stand up and say, "You know, no, that's not true. That's not true. I know about this. I've lived it. My kid has lived it." You know, and I wanna really be from my heart, not every person...
If you don't feel comfortable standing up and fighting right now, then sit back and we're gonna fight for you, okay? But we have to start having conversations, and one of the things, my superpower is that I'm kind to people who aren't kind to me. I will sit with you. You can say that I'm the worst person in the world because I'm trans, but I will still sit with you and have a conversation.
Get to know me. Because when I first started training, and I would not come out as trans until halfway through the training, and sometimes I can still get away with it but a lot of people know me now. But before, people would be like, "Oh my God," and I'm like, "Okay, what's changed for you?" You were probably thinking, "Look at this cute, funny Italian guy that's making me laugh and teaching me stuff, and now that you know I'm trans your opinion's gonna change about me? What's that about?"
That's really mind-blowing.
Eliza Moyer: Right.
Tony Ferriolo: And I used to blow their minds, it was great. But back then when I would ask the audience, "How many people know somebody who's trans?" Not one person would raise their hand.
Eliza Moyer: And I think that's part of the issue. I think not knowing somebody, not-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: having somebody in your life that you can ask questions or like, just that level of knowing I think is really what changes for people, and you've probably helped a lot of people in that way, just-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah
Eliza Moyer: ... breaking-
Tony Ferriolo: When I first started doing the work, my ex-girlfriend at the time, I was dating somebody when I transitioned and I was asked to speak somewhere and she says:
"Listen, Ton. Here's my only piece of advice to you. Your community is not known. When you stand in front of people, the way you act towards people, that's the way they're gonna think every trans person is."
So when I go on stage, even now, I remember that. It's like, you know, I have to be kind. Even though sometimes I'm really upset because people now, the hate is getting louder, and they'll say things to me in front of other people that they never would even have thought about doing.
But I just say, "Well, you know, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with you on that," and I smile, right? Because they can't say, "Oh, look, see? They're angry. They're ... You know, they lose their, cool." And so I'm really, when I'm representing my community, I take that very seriously.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. I like that. Actually, that's one of the tagged parts of your book I have-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: highlighted for myself, is how you talked about killing with kindness.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: Like, just be yourself, be our authentic self, and yeah. I-
Tony Ferriolo: It's so much easier-
Eliza Moyer: On board ...
Tony Ferriolo: being your authentic self.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Tony Ferriolo: I wish people would-
Eliza Moyer: Scary,
Tony Ferriolo: but I wish people who are cisgender think about that.
Like, think about every day going out there and not being yourself. Not being able to feel comfortable in spaces, not being able to wear the clothes you feel more comfortable in, not being able to have the name and pronoun that you choose to have. Think about that every day, all day.
It's not easy.
Eliza Moyer: And it's mind-boggling for me because I picture, like they're talking about using your gender-assigned bathroom, and it always goes back to the whole bathroom thing, and it blows my mind 'cause I think to myself, if I was in a bathroom and you walked in, like-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah . Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: How, like, what do people expect they're going to see? I feel like there's also a misconception that you're going to see a certain person-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: in your bathroom, and you're gonna be able to identify that that person is trans in some way. But-
Tony Ferriolo: Do you know, it's ... You know, I was training this school district probably two months ago, and there was probably, like, 184 people in the audience, and I can tell now the ones who don't wanna be there because they have their arms folded and they're sitting there with a little, like, why-am-I-here thing. So the bathroom stuff came up, and you know, I think a lot of times when people say the bathroom bills or whatever, they really think about trans women going into women's bathrooms, okay?
But they don't think about trans men going into a women's bathroom.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm. Right?
Tony Ferriolo: Right. So I said to this woman who was sitting there with her arms folded and had kinda like attitude, I said, "Scoot over, I have to wash my hands." And she was like, "Excuse me?" I said, "Oh, yeah, if this really goes through, and I don't think it will, but if it does, I have to use the ladies room."
"Oh, come on." I said, "What do you think, it's only trans women that have to use the men's room? I have to use the ladies room, so scoot over, ma'am, I need to wash my hands." Everybody was laughing, but she was mortified. I think I really hit her, like "wait a minute, that doesn't make sense."
And let's really... in my opinion, it, and it's a sad thing that this is targeting trans women who are women, who deserve to use the ladies bathroom, and they're not there to do anything else but to use the bathroom like everyone else. Okay? And it's really targeted for, unfortunately, the trans people who, as cisgender people say, don't pass, 'cause that would make people feel uncomfortable.
Well, you make me feel uncomfortable. Then what makes me feel uncomfortable is about the cis person who won't allow a trans woman into a bathroom because of what? They're more afraid of being in that space than you are of them being in there. So leave them alone and let them use the bathroom.
Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: Well said.
Tony Ferriolo: Thank you.
Eliza Moyer: Well said. How can cisgender people support trans people if they don't feel comfortable approaching them, or they aren't close to anybody who is trans? Like, how can they advocate?
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. I would say Google, but you know, you gotta be careful with that. But if you go on the right... like, there's a lot of organizations, LGBTQ+ organizations that have terminology pages and stuff like that.
Go to a legit organization's website and start learning about the community. Or if you say, just say some trans guy's gonna be at the library and do a book talk, maybe you go and you listen to him.
Eliza Moyer: Exactly.
Tony Ferriolo: We'll talk about that a little bit later.
Eliza Moyer: Yes, we're gonna definitely touch on that, for sure. What would you envision, and we kinda touched on this a little bit, but like a truly inclusive society, what would that look like to you?
What would society look like If, like you mentioned earlier, being trans wasn't at the forefront, if you could just exist
Tony Ferriolo: If everybody could just be who they are. Everyone. Everyone, no matter what, how they identify, who they love, what disabilities they have or anything, it would be a peaceful frigging environment.
It would be peaceful. Okay, you're always gonna have people that aren't kind, but it would be not so much heaviness around, "Oh my God, look who's coming," or, "Oh my God, you're not welcome here," and, "Oh my Go-", we wouldn't have that. It would be much more peaceful, and I just think it would be joyful too, you know?
I really do. And when you were asking me the question, just this feeling of, like, "I can breathe now."
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: You know?
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. I'm hoping for that.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, you know, I don't know if that's gonna happen ever, because you'll always have people who just don't like certain people because of who they are.
Not because they did anything personally bad to them, just because of who they are.
Eliza Moyer: Let's see. this was actually a question I had heard from somebody else. For new parents, when somebody asks them, "What gender is your baby?" what is the best way for them to reply? I know this is a little bit strange, 'cause you know, there's talk like, you know, don't we do these gender reveals and it's a boy, it's a girl, it's a...
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: you know. There's other cultures that don't do that. That they wait until children are 5, 10 to figure out what gender that child is. So for somebody who has a baby-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: what do you think is the best way? Like, what strategies can they use to leave space for that baby to grow and be themselves?
Tony Ferriolo: It's funny, 'cause I live next to a park.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: Sometimes I'm walking through the park and I'll hear, "It's a girl," and I'm like, "so you think so?" You know, it's like- But the best way to say, when somebody says, "Oh, my God, what are you having, a boy or a girl?"
Or, "Is that a boy or a girl?" It's like, "Well, we don't know yet. They're not old enough to tell us."
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: That's what you should be saying.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: It's just like when, a child is born, the, doctor or whoever delivers the kid should say, "You know what? It has male or female genitalia. I don't know. I'm not sure what their gender identity is yet."
Eliza Moyer: Yes. Could you actually just touch on that a little bit-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah ...
Eliza Moyer: because I think people have a hard time between gender identity, sex, and sexual orientation.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: So- Could you define those?
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, yeah, sure. So your gender identity lives in your brain.
It's your sense of being male, female, something else, both, or neither, okay?
And it's not connected to your genitalia. A lot of people think there's this golden string that attaches it. For example, when you're born, somebody looks at your body and says, you know, "This is who you are."
And then when that person gets old enough, they'll tell the adults if they guessed right or not. In my case, guessed wrong.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: All right? But I also want people to think about this. If you were born with the sex assigned at birth as male, and you have a penis, and just say you were in a car accident or had cancer and they removed your penis, would you wake up from that procedure feeling like a woman?
No. Would you wake up from that procedure not having a gender identity? No, of course not. You would wake up from that procedure still feeling like a male. Because your gender identity is in your brain, not in your pants, right?
Eliza Moyer: It's a very good way of saying that.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I think that I've polished that through the years to really make people say, "Well, wait a minute, the dude is right."
That's why we can't say because you don't have that, you're not that, you know? Sexual orientation is who we're attracted to, and sexual attraction is different than a romantic attraction. You could be sexually attracted to more than one gender, but only see yourselves in a ... self in a romantic relationship with one or the other.
Now, all these things, everything that I've talked about, every single person that's listening, is a combination, and it's all on a sliding scale, you know? So the only ... Like, again, the only thing I can say is it don't matter to me about that stuff. Just be a kind person. Just be willing to step in when you see somebody suffering, and you're gonna make it in this world.
Eliza Moyer: That's fantastic advice, and I wish more people took that advice.
Tony Ferriolo: Take my advice.
Eliza Moyer: Take it. Take it!
So I wanna talk a little bit about two different things. First, I read your book. I love your book. we are actually gonna be hosting you here at the library on Monday, June 16th at 6:00.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: You're gonna have a author talk.
I'm super excited.
Tony Ferriolo: I'm excited.
Eliza Moyer: I'm so excited. and in your book, I love you ... I don't wanna spoil it, but I'm gonna say it.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: You have QR codes.
Tony Ferriolo: Yes, I do.
Eliza Moyer: And they go to your art.
Tony Ferriolo: Yes.
Eliza Moyer: Tell me a little bit about the role that art has played for you in your life and your healing journey.
Tony Ferriolo: Saved my life.
Eliza Moyer: And you do go into this.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. My, the art saved my life, and it's funny because my publisher was like, "Tony, we, want your artwork in there," but it would've cost me three times as much to print the book because it would had to been printed in color.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: So I said, "Can't we just do QR codes?" And they were like, "Well," I said, "Yeah, let's just do QR codes."
But for, I think it's chapter two and three, there's sketches from when I was younger. And I was in the middle of writing the memoir. I went up in my attic to look for something, and I found this old sketchbook, and I found those. And I just ... It, really touched my heart because I was really suffering, but art always gave me an out.
It always gave me an outlet. Like, even when I was starting my healing journey and I was feeling better about, you know, my journey and stuff like that, I was able to really go back and tap in to, like, I Bleed. The painting I Bleed still hang, hangs over my couch. I was able to express how I felt back then in my self-harm days because I felt comfortable enough going back.
So art has helped me. Artistic Expressions of Transgender Youth book series, there's one more coming out. that's not the really good time to publish a book like that, so we're holding off a little bit. But children ... Listen, adults don't have words for some things, and we expect ... You know, like, when I'm training, I'll tell you a really quick story.
When I'm training, I'll go up to somebody and say, you know, "What's your gender identity?" Most of the time they don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm like, "You know, I identify as male." And somebody will say, "Well, I identify as female."
"Well, how do you know you're a female?" And these are grown people.
"What do you mean?"
I said, "Well, how do you know you're female?"
"Well, I'm attracted to men."
No, that's not your gender identity. So I explain it again. It's different. And they trip over themselves. "Well, I don't know. I don't know. I just feel that way."
I said, "Well, now you're an adult and you can't explain how you know who you are. How do you expect a child to explain it?"
But we yet, we expect trans youth and non-binary kiddos to tell you exactly how they know who they are when an adult can't do it. But through art, they're able to express their pains and their celebrations. The, third book is gonna have two questions. You know, each book has two questions.
It's gonna be, "what does it feel like to be misgendered?" And I already have some drawings. I'm telling you, they're horrific. And "what are you grateful for?" 'Cause there's always a heavy question and then a lighter question, and that's what we do. We have to find every day, I encourage everybody to wake up and find something that you're grateful for.
And in the book I talk about sometimes it was just that I had a roof over my head. I had nothing else to be grateful for, but I was grateful that I had a roof over my head.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. So art is huge, and I'm glad that you... I glad that you used the QR codes, 'cause it makes it a little interactive too, right?
Eliza Moyer: It really was, and it was beautiful to watch the journey. I don't wanna give a lot away.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: I want people to come and hear you speak.
Tony Ferriolo: Please come and hear me speak, and we're gonna have a good time.
Eliza Moyer: But yeah, to watch your journey through the images in the book was also very helpful visually to kinda see where you were and, you know, where you came out.
And I'm sure you're still doing art, and still-
Tony Ferriolo: Still doing art ...
Eliza Moyer: growing and changing and-
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. I'm, and I'm sell- I'm selling some art, and you know, it just when... And listen, I'm, healed, but I still struggle. And when I really get into a dark place, I go into my garage and I just create something.
Makes me feel good.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: That's, I... Art is healing. So, yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: I appreciate you sharing that bit of yourself.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, yeah.
Eliza Moyer: Well, you share a lot of yourself in your book too.
Tony Ferriolo: Oh, my God.
Eliza Moyer: which I think is amazing. And what inspired you? Because it is not easy to say, "I'm gonna put the hardest parts of my life in a book."
What inspired you to write the book? What made you think, "I need to share this story with people"?
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah. Over 10 years ago, I started it.
Eliza Moyer: Oh, wow. Okay.
Tony Ferriolo: And I got to the point where I was talking about some of the abuse, and I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. the reason why I wanted to do it now is because if one person reads that book and says, "Wow- That makes sense.
I can heal, and I can forgive people who have hurt me. You know, my, one of my dearest friends, Toni Anne, read... I gave her the book, gave her a copy of the book. The next day she came over to take a walk, you know, we walk together. She walks in my, house and she says, "My God, you're a god. You're a god."
And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" 'Cause I, was like, "What are you talking about?" And she says, "I just read chapter one."
Eliza Moyer: Oh.
Tony Ferriolo: How can you take care of your parents now? How? Mm-hmm. Forgiveness. Forgiveness. I just left her house before I came here. They live in North Haven.
Eliza Moyer: Oh, wow.
Tony Ferriolo: I forgave.
Forgiveness is powerful, man. It is powerful. So if people read the book and they're like, "Wow, listen, I can forgive and still feel okay," I mean, it lifts the weight that I have lifted off of my heart. Listen, I forgave people they don't even know I forgave.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: And I had to forgive myself because I felt I held a lot of guilt around the way I treated myself.
So my new thing is treating myself with kindness the way I treat other people with kindness.
Eliza Moyer: That's harder to do-
Tony Ferriolo: It's harder ...
Eliza Moyer: than, yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: You know, I'm actually doing a talk, next Wednesday at Hamden Middle School, doing two seventh grade classes, and then I'm back in June to do two more, and it's called, "Kindness is Contagious".
And we talk about the difference between unintentional unkindness and intentional unkindness. I don't use the word bullying.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: Bullying makes people shrink.
Eliza Moyer: Mm-hmm.
Tony Ferriolo: You know? And people say, you know, "Why do you do it?" I do it for the kids in the audience that are gonna sit there silently because they're being bullied.
You know? Because I was bullied to the point that I became a bully, you know? So I'm really excited. We've done this before. We get really good, like, you know, rave reviews. The kids are... love it. And, you know, I have a way with kids, and I'm really looking forward to that. Because that's the point. In this, in this training and the presentation, I say to them, "And how are you kind to yourself?"
Because kindness has a boomerang effect. When you're kinder to yourself, you're kinder to others, and when you're kinder to others, you're kinder to yourself. Happens organically. It's all we need to do.
Eliza Moyer: Is that what you hope people take away from your book? Is that one of the main things, is kindness?
Tony Ferriolo: Forgiveness and be kind.
Eliza Moyer: Yeah.
Tony Ferriolo: I think I end the book by saying something like, "Be grateful for what you have. Work hard, well, work hard for what you want, be grateful for what you have, and just be kind." I try to live that, my life through those three things.
Eliza Moyer: It's a great way to live your life.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah, yeah.
Eliza Moyer: And I, yeah.
I appreciate you so much. I appreciate what you do. I appreciate what you do for the community. I hope you know the impact that you have had on so many people's lives, including my own. Yeah, it's an honor. it's tremendous. Yeah. So thank you. You're welcome. again, I want to reiterate, Monday, June 16th, Tony's gonna be here at Miller Hamden Library, 6:00 PM in our friends' room speaking about his book.
he'll have copies of his book for sale.
Tony Ferriolo: Yes, I will.
Eliza Moyer: For purchase, you can get them signed by the author himself.
Tony Ferriolo: Oh my God. Who's signing? I'm signing them. Oh, I'll sign them.
Eliza Moyer: All right.
Tony Ferriolo: I'll sign them. You buy them, I'll sign them.
Eliza Moyer: We also have the books here in circulation at the Hamden Library if you'd like to take them out, but come buy them.
All I'm saying. yeah, and you can ask questions firsthand.
Tony Ferriolo: Yes.
Eliza Moyer: And I think that's a great thing.
Tony Ferriolo: That's the best part, I think, of it- the author's talk- is when we open it up to the audience to ask questions, and I'll answer any... Well, I'll entertain any question.
Eliza Moyer: There you go. I like that.
Tony Ferriolo: But I actually...
I have never not answered a question.
Eliza Moyer: There. Yes. So if you have questions, please come. This is a great opportunity to meet Tony, to hear more about his book and his experiences. is there anything else that you would like to add? Any takeaway?
Tony Ferriolo: No, I just, I wanna s- again, thank you for having me. and again, listen, we, are resilient, our community.
We will get through this. We have a lot more allies than we did 20 years ago when I first transitioned in 2005. There wasn't anybody standing up for this community. Now there's a lot of people. So, you know. And if anybody needs support, reach out to your community. We're here to support you, for sure.
Eliza Moyer: Absolutely. Oh, and how can people find you?
Tony Ferriolo: Oh. Well, they can find me two places. They can find me at Healthcare Advocates International, that's hcaillc.com, or on my personal website, tonyferriolo.com.
Eliza Moyer: Perfect.
Tony Ferriolo: Yeah.
Eliza Moyer: Thank you so much again for your time.
Tony Ferriolo: No, thanks for having me. For being here. This was fun. It went by fast.
Eliza Moyer: You're amazing. Thank you, Tony.
Tony Ferriolo: You're welcome.
Michael Pierry: That's all the time we have for this episode. See you next time